Alternative to x11/gnome3 ?

Post by Victor Sudakov
Dear Colleagues,
What alternative to x11/gnome3 can you advise?
I would like a more lightweight desktop environment, however it MUST
support switching between GUI users without logging out (like
Ubuntu or Windows).
I tried Mate but it does not seem to be able to switch between users
without logging out (at least the display manager Mate comes with
cannot do that).
Thanks in advance for any input.
--
Victor Sudakov, VAS4-RIPE, VAS47-RIPN
AS43859
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Try xfce

Victor Sudakov

2018-04-29 14:43:26 UTC

Post by blubee blubeeme

Post by Victor Sudakov
What alternative to x11/gnome3 can you advise?
I would like a more lightweight desktop environment, however it MUST
support switching between GUI users without logging out (like
Ubuntu or Windows).
I tried Mate but it does not seem to be able to switch between users
without logging out (at least the display manager Mate comes with
cannot do that).

Try xfce

Do you know from experience that it supports switching? Which dm does
it use, its own?

--
Victor Sudakov, VAS4-RIPE, VAS47-RIPN
AS43859

Wes Frazier

2018-04-29 15:18:39 UTC

Post by blubee blubeeme

Try xfce

Do you know from experience that it supports switching? Which dm does
it use, its own?

I know from past experience that on GNU/Linux XFCE supports user
switching when LightDM is the display manager but not with other DMs. I
have not yet tried this on FreeBSD however.

- Wes

Polytropon

2018-04-29 20:49:51 UTC

If remember correctly, both Gnome 2 and Mate _can_ do this. The
feature you're talking about is called "switch user", i. e., it
is a session switcher: User A is logged in, has programs open and
so on; user B approaches and asks to do something, so A selects
the "switch user" function, allows B to log in; B does his stuff,
logs out - and the session of user A is restored.

Is that what you're looking for?

If yes, this function is integrated in the desktop, and not
part of the display manager (which usually is only activated
when _no_ user is logged in).

Additionally, you can probably run a second X server on the
same system and switch over for a second session... :-)

--
Polytropon
Magdeburg, Germany
Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0
Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ...

Victor Sudakov

2018-04-30 04:42:53 UTC

If remember correctly, both Gnome 2 and Mate _can_ do this.

But I have a virtual box with the Mate metaport installed, and the "switch
user" button is nowhere to be found in the Mate GUI.

Post by Polytropon
The feature you're talking about is called "switch user", i. e., it is a
session switcher: User A is logged in, has programs open and so on; user
B approaches and asks to do something, so A selects the "switch user"
function, allows B to log in; B does his stuff, logs out - and the
session of user A is restored.
Is that what you're looking for?

Not quite so. None of the users ever has to close her session and apps.
Both the users' programs continue to run. Of course, at any moment only one
user can access her programs on the desktop.

The rest of your assumption is correct.

Post by Polytropon
If yes, this function is integrated in the desktop, and not
part of the display manager (which usually is only activated
when _no_ user is logged in).

I beg to disagree. When I use this feature in gnome3 and in Ubuntu,
the display manager runs a separate instance of the X server per each
user. And when you authenticate to the gdm, it either starts a new X
server for you, or connects you to the existing X session. This is a
sample output of ps on a PC with two GUI sessions (only one owns the
desktop):

[***@vas ~] ps axww | grep X
13017 - S 1:47,82 /usr/local/bin/X :0 -background none -noreset -verbose -auth /var/run/gdm/auth-for-gdm-6X91vP/database -nolisten tcp vt09 (Xorg)
13460 - S 0:19,43 /usr/local/bin/X :1 -background none -noreset -verbose -auth /var/run/gdm/auth-for-gdm-ZbwJGt/database -nolisten tcp (Xorg)
13938 8 S+ 0:00,00 grep X

I don't know how this is done internally.

Post by Polytropon
Additionally, you can probably run a second X server on the
same system and switch over for a second session... :-)

That's exactly what gdm from gnome3 does. But I'm looking for an
alternative to gdm and gnome (and not startx).

I have tried the stock xdm to run two separate local X-servers but this
failed miserably for some reason. Must be some conflict it was unable to
resolve, but the second X-server would not even start.

--
Victor Sudakov, VAS4-RIPE, VAS47-RIPN
AS43859

Polytropon

2018-04-30 05:06:46 UTC

If remember correctly, both Gnome 2 and Mate _can_ do this.

But I have a virtual box with the Mate metaport installed, and the "switch
user" button is nowhere to be found in the Mate GUI.

Two possibilites:

a) This function has not become part of Mate, but it was part
of Gnome 2; maybe Cinnamon (the other Gnome 2 successor)
has it?

b) This function needs to be manually added to one of the menus
or bars (via their configuration tools).

This is what I wanted to describe: The session is stored with
all open programs and files before switching to a different
user, and restored after the other user has logged out.

Gnome 2 provided this feature.

As did Mac OS X. ;-)

Post by Polytropon
If yes, this function is integrated in the desktop, and not
part of the display manager (which usually is only activated
when _no_ user is logged in).

I beg to disagree. When I use this feature in gnome3 and in Ubuntu,
the display manager runs a separate instance of the X server per each
user. And when you authenticate to the gdm, it either starts a new X
server for you, or connects you to the existing X session. This is a
sample output of ps on a PC with two GUI sessions (only one owns the
13017 - S 1:47,82 /usr/local/bin/X :0 -background none -noreset -verbose -auth /var/run/gdm/auth-for-gdm-6X91vP/database -nolisten tcp vt09 (Xorg)
13460 - S 0:19,43 /usr/local/bin/X :1 -background none -noreset -verbose -auth /var/run/gdm/auth-for-gdm-ZbwJGt/database -nolisten tcp (Xorg)
13938 8 S+ 0:00,00 grep X
I don't know how this is done internally.

I don't have much experience with Gnome 3 because it scared
the fsck out of me after "gnome" defaulted from Gnome 2 to
Gnome 3 - and I switched to Mate. :-)

Post by Polytropon
Additionally, you can probably run a second X server on the
same system and switch over for a second session... :-)

That's exactly what gdm from gnome3 does. But I'm looking for an
alternative to gdm and gnome (and not startx).

Maybe wdm, the display manager inteded for use with GNUstep,
can be used?

Post by Victor Sudakov
I have tried the stock xdm to run two separate local X-servers but this
failed miserably for some reason. Must be some conflict it was unable to
resolve, but the second X-server would not even start.

Running two X servers is not a trivial task, but possible
with some work. However, the feature you're requesting should
be available without all the trouble. :-)

--
Polytropon
Magdeburg, Germany
Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0
Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ...

Victor Sudakov

2018-04-30 05:23:22 UTC

If remember correctly, both Gnome 2 and Mate _can_ do this.

But I have a virtual box with the Mate metaport installed, and the "switch
user" button is nowhere to be found in the Mate GUI.

a) This function has not become part of Mate, but it was part
of Gnome 2; maybe Cinnamon (the other Gnome 2 successor)
has it?
b) This function needs to be manually added to one of the menus
or bars (via their configuration tools).

You say you use Mate, could I ask you to do me a favour and look how
to enable this function in your installation of Mate?

[dd]

Post by Polytropon
I don't have much experience with Gnome 3 because it scared
the fsck out of me after "gnome" defaulted from Gnome 2 to
Gnome 3 - and I switched to Mate. :-)

I want to get rid of gnome3 too, I just need functional user switching
somewhere else.

Post by Polytropon
Additionally, you can probably run a second X server on the
same system and switch over for a second session... :-)

That's exactly what gdm from gnome3 does. But I'm looking for an
alternative to gdm and gnome (and not startx).

Maybe wdm, the display manager inteded for use with GNUstep,
can be used?

Maybe, or maybe not. I'm looking for at least one success story of
functional user switching.

Running two X servers is not a trivial task, but possible
with some work. However, the feature you're requesting should
be available without all the trouble. :-)

I thought as much, should be available without all the trouble. But...

It surprises me however that nobody has stepped forward and said "I run
two local X-servers", or "I use user switching all the time with XXX" -
why is that?

--
Victor Sudakov, VAS4-RIPE, VAS47-RIPN
AS43859

Steve O'Hara-Smith

2018-04-30 06:08:43 UTC

On Mon, 30 Apr 2018 12:23:22 +0700

Post by Victor Sudakov
It surprises me however that nobody has stepped forward and said "I run
two local X-servers", or "I use user switching all the time with XXX" -
why is that?

I don't do it now, but I have run multiple X servers using startx
and switching with Alt-F<n>., IIRC the only required magic was to give each
server a distinct number.

--
Steve O'Hara-Smith <***@sohara.org>

Victor Sudakov

2018-04-30 12:17:29 UTC

Post by Victor Sudakov
It surprises me however that nobody has stepped forward and said "I run
two local X-servers", or "I use user switching all the time with XXX" -
why is that?

I don't do it now, but I have run multiple X servers using startx
and switching with Alt-F<n>., IIRC the only required magic was to give each
server a distinct number.

No, thanks, startx won't do, I need user authentication to access the
session.

I have tried running several local X-servers from xdm but for some
reason the second server would not start.

--
Victor Sudakov, VAS4-RIPE, VAS47-RIPN
AS43859

Steve O'Hara-Smith

2018-04-30 12:30:35 UTC

On Mon, 30 Apr 2018 19:17:29 +0700

Post by Victor Sudakov
It surprises me however that nobody has stepped forward and said "I
run two local X-servers", or "I use user switching all the time with
XXX" - why is that?

I don't do it now, but I have run multiple X servers using
startx and switching with Alt-F<n>., IIRC the only required magic was
to give each server a distinct number.

No, thanks, startx won't do, I need user authentication to access the
session.

Yep I rather thought you would.

Post by Victor Sudakov
I have tried running several local X-servers from xdm but for some
reason the second server would not start.

Even if you get it going (I'm sure it's possible just fiddly like
anything with xdm) I'm pretty sure xdm will only authenticate at login time
and you'll still be able to switch sessions with Ctrl-Alt-F<n> without
logging in unless something automatically locks the X session when you
switch VTs (which isn't normal behaviour).

--
Steve O'Hara-Smith | Directable Mirror Arrays
C:\>WIN | A better way to focus the sun
The computer obeys and wins. | licences available see
You lose and Bill collects. | http://www.sohara.org/

Victor Sudakov

2018-04-30 13:10:38 UTC

Post by Victor Sudakov
It surprises me however that nobody has stepped forward and said "I
run two local X-servers", or "I use user switching all the time with
XXX" - why is that?

I don't do it now, but I have run multiple X servers using
startx and switching with Alt-F<n>., IIRC the only required magic was
to give each server a distinct number.

No, thanks, startx won't do, I need user authentication to access the
session.

Yep I rather thought you would.

Post by Victor Sudakov
I have tried running several local X-servers from xdm but for some
reason the second server would not start.

I see your point, and you are most probably right. From this point of
view, there is no difference between two X-servers running from xdm,
or from startx. I may as well use some password-protected screensaver
(I think xlockmore can do that) starting after a timeout.

--
Victor Sudakov, VAS4-RIPE, VAS47-RIPN
AS43859

tech-lists

2018-05-01 13:35:05 UTC

I use xdm with xfce4 for this.

--
J.

Victor Sudakov

2018-05-03 04:36:05 UTC

I use xdm with xfce4 for this.

Could you please tell more about it. What packages you had to install
besides x11/xfce, how you configured xdm and xfce4 to support user
switching, how you start xfce4.

Thank you in advance.

--
Victor Sudakov, VAS4-RIPE, VAS47-RIPN
AS43859

Victor Sudakov

2018-05-03 05:46:21 UTC

I use xdm with xfce4 for this.

Could you please tell more about it. What packages you had to install
besides x11/xfce, how you configured xdm and xfce4 to support user
switching, how you start xfce4.

I've just tried x11/xdm with x11-wm/xfce, starting /usr/local/bin/xfce4-session from ~/.xsession

I login via the xdm login widget, the xfce desktop launches, all seems
fine, but the "Switch user" menu is grey (inactive).

What is it I've missed? How is it supposed to work?

--
Victor Sudakov, VAS4-RIPE, VAS47-RIPN
AS43859

tech-lists

2018-05-03 14:24:14 UTC

Post by Victor Sudakov
I've just tried x11/xdm with x11-wm/xfce, starting /usr/local/bin/xfce4-session from ~/.xsession
I login via the xdm login widget, the xfce desktop launches, all seems
fine, but the "Switch user" menu is grey (inactive).
What is it I've missed? How is it supposed to work?

Hi,

[xdm]

You'll need to modify /etc/ttys like this:
ttyv8 "/usr/local/bin/xdm -nodaemon" xterm off secure

change the off to on, save then then reboot (as per
https://www.freebsd.org/doc/handbook/x-xdm.html)

[xsession]

In $HOME/.xsession I have this:

#!/bin/sh
LC_ALL=en_GB.UTF-8; export LC_ALL

exec /usr/local/bin/startxfce4 --with-ck-launch

so each user will need this in their $HOME

I don't use the 'switch user' facility of xfce4 because it's not xfce4
that is responsible for the session, it's xdm. So log out of xfce4
(which should return the screen to xdm) and enter the other user details
in xdm.

--
J.

Victor Sudakov

2018-05-04 02:16:35 UTC

Hi,
[xdm]
ttyv8 "/usr/local/bin/xdm -nodaemon" xterm off secure
change the off to on, save then then reboot (as per
https://www.freebsd.org/doc/handbook/x-xdm.html)

Why would you want to reboot instead of "init q"? But I digress.

Post by tech-lists
[xsession]
#!/bin/sh
LC_ALL=en_GB.UTF-8; export LC_ALL
exec /usr/local/bin/startxfce4 --with-ck-launch
so each user will need this in their $HOME
I don't use the 'switch user' facility of xfce4

You should have said it from the very beginning :-(

Post by tech-lists
because it's not xfce4
that is responsible for the session, it's xdm.

No, xdm cannot 'switch user' in the sense I was looking for. Please
read the beginning of the thread.

Post by tech-lists
So log out of xfce4
(which should return the screen to xdm)

and effectively close all your running X-programs. No, that's not what
is needed.

Post by tech-lists
and enter the other user details in xdm.

--
Victor Sudakov, VAS4-RIPE, VAS47-RIPN
AS43859

Carl Johnson

2018-05-04 03:44:45 UTC

I use xdm with xfce4 for this.

Could you please tell more about it. What packages you had to install
besides x11/xfce, how you configured xdm and xfce4 to support user
switching, how you start xfce4.

I haven't used it, but XFCE does have a 'switch user' button for the
panel. It is part of the 'action buttons' panel addon, but appears to
be part of the basic install. Those action buttons also include things
like lock screen, suspend, hibernate, etc. Let me know if you need more
information.

--
Carl Johnson ***@peak.org

Victor Sudakov

2018-05-04 05:04:09 UTC

I use xdm with xfce4 for this.

Could you please tell more about it. What packages you had to install
besides x11/xfce, how you configured xdm and xfce4 to support user
switching, how you start xfce4.

I haven't used it, but XFCE does have a 'switch user' button for the
panel.

Yes, it does, but the button is grey and cannot be used.

Post by Carl Johnson
It is part of the 'action buttons' panel addon, but appears to
be part of the basic install. Those action buttons also include things
like lock screen, suspend, hibernate, etc. Let me know if you need more
information.

Yes, I need more information please. In my setup, the 'switch user'
button is grey (inactive). How do I make it actually work? How is it
even *supposed* to work?

xdm per se certainly does not do "user switching" in the sense Windows
or Ubuntu allow it (with the disconnected user's X-clients still running
in the background).

--
Victor Sudakov, VAS4-RIPE, VAS47-RIPN
AS43859

Carl Johnson

2018-05-04 16:04:33 UTC

I use xdm with xfce4 for this.

Could you please tell more about it. What packages you had to install
besides x11/xfce, how you configured xdm and xfce4 to support user
switching, how you start xfce4.

I haven't used it, but XFCE does have a 'switch user' button for the
panel.

Yes, it does, but the button is grey and cannot be used.

I said that I hadn't tried it, but I just tried it now and got the same
result as you. I did a web search and it appears that it requires gdm
for that button. You can try that, but otherwise I can't help any more
than that.

--
Carl Johnson ***@peak.org

Victor Sudakov

2018-05-07 04:18:15 UTC

I use xdm with xfce4 for this.

Could you please tell more about it. What packages you had to install
besides x11/xfce, how you configured xdm and xfce4 to support user
switching, how you start xfce4.

I haven't used it, but XFCE does have a 'switch user' button for the
panel.

Yes, it does, but the button is grey and cannot be used.

I said that I hadn't tried it, but I just tried it now and got the same
result as you. I did a web search and it appears that it requires gdm
for that button.

Thanks for the news. It is bad news however, because gdm is part of
x11/gnome3 which I want to get rid of.

Post by Carl Johnson
You can try that,

I'm using it currently. Seems like gdm is the only display manager
which can do user switching.

--
Victor Sudakov, VAS4-RIPE, VAS47-RIPN
AS43859

AikiZen

2018-05-04 23:26:42 UTC

Le Sun, 29 Apr 2018 21:02:56 +0700,

hi victor,

this day i think about code a new interface style, in front of vt, like
haiku or else.
this interface start at the boot time and is between tty and X11.

for this need rewrite an gtk3 library or ncurses library, i don't know.

but this interface will use especially without mouse using, logging
like on ttys and work like hight interface at X11/gnome3

but take the place of vt... i don't know if it's possible and my
competence of coding it too light.

but i think the distinction between ttys/vt and X11/gnome3 is not for
new desktop use. ttys just for server

may be if there this type of interface you find what that you want.

best regard,
Aiki.

Victor Sudakov

2018-05-07 04:22:55 UTC

Post by AikiZen

The best thing about X11 is the fact that it is networked, you can
have a single display (X-server) and several apps (called X-clients)
running on different hosts but drawing on your display. Similar to
published apps in Citrix, but you need no Citrix, actually not
anything besides Xorg itself (all is built-in).

The thing you suggest will be lacking this feature.

--
Victor Sudakov, VAS4-RIPE, VAS47-RIPN
AS43859

sergio lenzi

2018-05-10 18:40:29 UTC

Well, you can always go back to the reliable gnome2 now AKA mate
you can use our "distribution" with more than 1800 packages for amd64,
freebsd-10 (we will move to 12 when it is done)
this "packages" are used for more than 500 users and have all a "normal"
user needs you can list the packages using
your "browser" too at: ftp://dist64.k1.com.br/FreeBSD
<ftp://dist64.k1.com.br/FreeBSD/$%7BABI> there you can find a 32 bit
packags for FreeBSD12 too
to update, just use pkg upgrade

just create a file in /etc/pkg named mate.conf....
===========================================
MATE64: {
url: ftp://dist64.k1.com.br/FreeBSD/${ABI},
enabled: yes
}
===========================================
and than pkg install -y mate
if you need more, than.... pkg install -y mate-full

Enjoy

Victor Sudakov

2018-05-11 09:08:13 UTC

Post by sergio lenzi
Well, you can always go back to the reliable gnome2 now AKA mate
you can use our "distribution" with more than 1800 packages for amd64,

Dear Sergio,

Does your mate distribution support user swithing (please see the
first mail in the thread)? If it does, what display manager does your
mate distribution depend on?

--
Victor Sudakov, VAS4-RIPE, VAS47-RIPN
AS43859

sergio lenzi

2018-05-11 11:59:46 UTC